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power at wheels

Forced induction, NA tunning, exhaust, just performance

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power at wheels

Postby benzino » Sat May 19, 2012 1:25 pm

Anyone know what 2.0l engines produce stock at the wheels on average?

I'll get round to doing mine eventually, just curious...

I wonder if ~100kw at the wheels is achievable with just bolt ons (i.e. intake and exhaust) or does it need cams, tuning or port and polish to take it that bit further and then I guess individual throttle bodies and compression would be stage 3...

On paper the engine makes 98kw at the fly and then say 15% drivetrain loss... full exhaust is usually ~10% gain and then new intake piping to make up the extra few %... but then I guess age/wear of components needs to be taken into account too.


So anyone got any solid info?

(post #1234 too :lol:)
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Re: power at wheels

Postby exist3nce » Tue May 22, 2012 8:12 pm

My stock U20SED made 107whp when I had to temporarily take off the turbo to be rebuilt. Keep in mind this dyno run was done with an open throttle body (no intake piping at all) and the exhaust housing of the turbo was left in place (just removed the CHRA), 3" downpipe and 2.5" catback. This is to say had this dyno run been done with a proper NA exhaust header, it would have likely been closer to 113-115whp.


See this part of my thread if you are not sure what I'm talking about (scroll down):

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6735&start=600
2004 Optra/Forenza/Lacetti - 214whp - Emanage Blue - CT12B - Professional P&P - Getrag F28 6spd - KW V3 Coilovers - FX35 Retrofit
2002 IS300 5MT - 520whp - AEM EMS - GT4088R - Built Motor 9.5CR - OEM SupraTT muffler - W58 - TRD LSD - LS430 Retrofit
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Re: power at wheels

Postby benzino » Wed May 23, 2012 1:48 pm

hmm so no restriction intake + reasonably large exhaust made 107... doesn't look good for the magic 136hp with just bolt ons.

mine must be making about 80whp with the 1.75" exhaust and dodgy leganza intake! hahaha
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Re: power at wheels

Postby exist3nce » Thu May 24, 2012 6:35 pm

benzino wrote:hmm so no restriction intake + reasonably large exhaust made 107... doesn't look good for the magic 136hp with just bolt ons.

mine must be making about 80whp with the 1.75" exhaust and dodgy leganza intake! hahaha



Well yes proportionally large exhaust for an NA car, but don't forget the restriction of the turbine housing sitting there doing nothing lol
2004 Optra/Forenza/Lacetti - 214whp - Emanage Blue - CT12B - Professional P&P - Getrag F28 6spd - KW V3 Coilovers - FX35 Retrofit
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Re: power at wheels

Postby benzino » Sat May 26, 2012 6:50 am

yeah i was going to say that they cancel each other out
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Re: power at wheels

Postby benzino » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:57 am

L34
This is the 2.0 L (1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)) engine for the North American market, dubbed D-TEC or E-TEC II by Daewoo. It has an 86.0 mm (3.39 in) bore and stroke. Power is 119 hp (89 kW) at 5400 rpm and torque is 126 lb·ft (171 N·m).

This doesn't seem right, it seems too low seeing as though the nubira/leganza is rated at 98kw/185nm in australia.

Are the NAM engines really 89kw/171nm?
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Re: power at wheels

Postby garridob » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:34 am

The dyno guy im friends with in daejeon says 110 at the wheels is typical for the 2.0 magnus cars, but those are supposed to be a little stronger than nubiras and leganzas.
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Re: power at wheels

Postby Red_LaNOS » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:22 pm

My understanding is that nubira ECU's wouldnt really make use of the "bolt on" mods like the exhaust and intake mani changes. You woudlnt get optimum power gains from your modifications. And whether you can make the leap to 100kw or past it is questionable because of that, however i reckon with an aftermarket ECU alone and more aggressive engine management using the stock intakes and exhaust you would cross it easily.
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Re: power at wheels

Postby benzino » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:57 pm

garridob wrote:The dyno guy im friends with in daejeon says 110 at the wheels is typical for the 2.0 magnus cars, but those are supposed to be a little stronger than nubiras and leganzas.


110hp is pretty damn good for a stock engine, that's pretty much dead on 20% drivetrain loss. When I get my exhaust done, I'll see what it makes... if it's above 120hp at the wheels, I'll be very happy ;)
At the moment it feels like it's making about 80hp with the 1.75" exhaust :lol: it's so choked up over 4000rpm
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Re: power at wheels

Postby benzino » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:08 pm

Red_LaNOS wrote:My understanding is that nubira ECU's wouldnt really make use of the "bolt on" mods like the exhaust and intake mani changes. You woudlnt get optimum power gains from your modifications. And whether you can make the leap to 100kw or past it is questionable because of that, however i reckon with an aftermarket ECU alone and more aggressive engine management using the stock intakes and exhaust you would cross it easily.


the problem is that they don't utilise MAF sensors, so they can't really sense airflow improvement... but like all engines they do respond to breathing enhancement.
But after 5 months of reading around, I agree that intake and exhaust won't be enough to take it to the magic figure.
If new management is needed, then I'll drop $700 on a piggyback and a wideband and road tune it myself :badgrin:
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Re: power at wheels

Postby garridob » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:36 am

benzino wrote:
garridob wrote:The dyno guy im friends with in daejeon says 110 at the wheels is typical for the 2.0 magnus cars, but those are supposed to be a little stronger than nubiras and leganzas.


110hp is pretty damn good for a stock engine, that's pretty much dead on 20% drivetrain loss. When I get my exhaust done, I'll see what it makes... if it's above 120hp at the wheels, I'll be very happy ;)
At the moment it feels like it's making about 80hp with the 1.75" exhaust :lol: it's so choked up over 4000rpm

The Magnus supposedly makes 146 at the crank, factory. So yah, a little stronger.

HP, not KWh, btw.
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Re: power at wheels

Postby benzino » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:12 pm

Oh, well then I'll revise my estimate... If I make above 110hp at the wheels I'll be happy! :lol:

Do you know what engine management the Magnus uses? I couldn't imagine they would still be using GM Delco, but then again, I couldn't imagine them using bosch either :roll:
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Re: power at wheels

Postby Red_LaNOS » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:48 am

Well id be very interested to see if you get to your magic number of 110hp, though to put things into perspective my 1.6DOHC with an after market ECU puts out 103.3hp at the wheels. I havent touched the intake (except removed the intake resonator) but i have done the exhaust. I honestly believe you might be able to. What HP do you get at the wheels, have you done a dyno run? The tuner who put my Link ECU into the Lanos said roughly you can expect around a 20% reduction in the kilowatt value at the fly wheel to the tyres. aka 100kw at the flywheel is about 100hp at the tyres. Right now the 1.6 rocks just under 100kw at the flywheel but makes 103.3hp at the tyres.

Having said that i dont think bolt on mods will get you anymore than say 10kw more at the flywheel
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Re: power at wheels

Postby garridob » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:34 am

benzino wrote:Oh, well then I'll revise my estimate... If I make above 110hp at the wheels I'll be happy! :lol:

Do you know what engine management the Magnus uses? I couldn't imagine they would still be using GM Delco, but then again, I couldn't imagine them using bosch either :roll:

I'm not sure what engine management it uses. I do know it's basically a Leganza evolution. I also know it's completely compatible with my Nubira's ECU.
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Re: power at wheels

Postby benzino » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:55 pm

Red_LaNOS wrote:Well id be very interested to see if you get to your magic number of 110hp, though to put things into perspective my 1.6DOHC with an after market ECU puts out 103.3hp at the wheels. I havent touched the intake (except removed the intake resonator) but i have done the exhaust. I honestly believe you might be able to. What HP do you get at the wheels, have you done a dyno run? The tuner who put my Link ECU into the Lanos said roughly you can expect around a 20% reduction in the kilowatt value at the fly wheel to the tyres. aka 100kw at the flywheel is about 100hp at the tyres. Right now the 1.6 rocks just under 100kw at the flywheel but makes 103.3hp at the tyres.

Having said that i dont think bolt on mods will get you anymore than say 10kw more at the flywheel



well the 2.0l I have has 98kw/131hp at the fly from the factory (and going by 20% loss that would mean 105hp at the wheels)... but that is factory fresh. A full exhaust system including extractors should gain 10% (9.8kw assuming factory freshness, and then another couple of kw from the intake = 12kw total gain).
But, THIS is all speculation... when my exhaust gets done, which will be in the next month or two; then I'll put it on a dyno and the car can tell it's own story :D

also if you're tuner reckons it's 20% loss then 100kw at the flywheel would end up being 80kw at the wheels which is 107hp... (100kw=134hp)
and I wouldn't be asking what power at the wheels the 2.0l has if I had already done a dyno run :roll:
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