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Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

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Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby gse_turbo » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:18 pm

Looks like I have a few threads I should update first but I couldnt start this one. I'm building this motor for myself and if the budget allows I want to use all the top end products that are available.

Bottom end build specs:
2002 Isuzu Rodeo 2.2 16v block (226mm deck height)
1988-94 2.0 8v crank (86mm stroke)
1988-94 2.0 8v main caps (not using ECOTEC caps)
ARP main studs (C20XE/LET)
ACL/Calico coated main bearings
Custom .25" thick main guidle/crank scraper
2002 Isuzu Rodeo aluminum oil pan, custom steel lower section
Z20LET oil pump, Calico coated gears
Modified Z20 sump tube
Pauter Machine custom connecting rods (10mm longer than standard)
Wiseco pistons 87mm 9.0:1 (lube skirt coat, ceramic top coating)

Top end build specs:
2002 Isuzu Rodeo head and water manifolds
Supertech Z20 stainless In. valves, inconel Ex. valves (maybe ceramic coated)
Supertech Z20 dual spring kit w/titanium retainers
Autosprint solid lifters
Web Camshafts hard-weld cams (specs undecided)
Port and polish based on flow bench testing
Cometic Z20LET MLS head gasket 87mm, .051" thick
Undecided on adjustable cam gears
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby turboetec » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:49 pm

Nice! I see you've learnt some stuff along the way with my build as well! :wink:

What's your target for the build in terms of RPMs, boost, and total power?

One of the things I'm wondering for my build now is whether the stock oil pump can keep up at the higher RPMs, specifically, whether I'm going to see cavitation and a drop in oil pressure. Not sure how the Z20LET oil pump will fare.
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby gse_turbo » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:05 pm

Yes, coming into contact with Autosprint for their solid lifters was a very good find.

I have hopes of building an 8500+RPM motor that will be good for 600hp. The goal is a motor that will hold up to WRC/GRC specs.

The Z20LET pump is specific to the larger motor. There are two major differences between the standard 2.0 motor and the Z20. The gear type inside the pump is the biggest improvement in my opinion. I would have to post pics to really explain this. The other difference is a larger oil supply tube.
I just resently looked into oil pump upgrades for the 1.6 D-Tech motor. I think the 1.4 turbo motor from the Chevrolet Cruze and Sonic would be a direct replacement. I would have to compare the two before saying for sure. Comparing the oil pump gaskets would be the best place to start.
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby PrecisionBoost » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:51 pm

Are you using the 2.2L block and longer rod length to decrease rod angle and increase dwell time @ TDC ?

I've had some thoughts to do the same thing in the past, but I was unsure if it would really produce any significant results with a turbo engine.

It makes sense to do it on an ultimate N/A build to squeeze the maximum efficiency out of the burn cycle, but I'm not convinced it will help with a turbo where you can simply increase the boost 1psi to make up for any losses in burn efficiency.

My concerns in the end came down to increased piston and rod acceleration and deceleration along with the added mass of the longer connecting rod, which would add significant stress to the crank.

That is to say I think it should be ok to run the stock crank at 8000rpm ( perhaps even 8500 ) with the standard sized forged rods/pistons, but I was concerned that the larger deceleration just before TDC created by longer rods would create too much stress and limit my "safe" upper RPM range.

If I'm not mistaken the piston/rod deceleration with exhaust valves open is always the limiting factor on crank stress ( 270 deg to 360 deg after ignition )

Hopefully your open to some tech talk on the subject, I think it's worth the time to discuss your decision to increase rod length in this build.
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby exist3nce » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:03 pm

gse_turbo wrote:Yes, coming into contact with Autosprint for their solid lifters was a very good find.

I have hopes of building an 8500+RPM motor that will be good for 600hp. The goal is a motor that will hold up to WRC/GRC specs.

The Z20LET pump is specific to the larger motor. There are two major differences between the standard 2.0 motor and the Z20. The gear type inside the pump is the biggest improvement in my opinion. I would have to post pics to really explain this. The other difference is a larger oil supply tube.


I'm very interested to see this build progress.

Also I've long been interested in these differences about the oil pumps... do you have pictures you could show us ?
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby gse_turbo » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:44 pm

Those are good concerns but the question is, what's the frame of reference? The answer is connecting rod ratio. After comparing serveral similar motors, the 2.0 has one of the lowers rod ratios I've come across. The 2.0 has a rod ratio of 1.66:1. If I remember correctly, 1.60:1 is generally considered the lowest a motor should be built with. This is the one of the biggest reasons our motors redline at 6500RPMs

For the most part I tend to compare specs with other iron block motors like various 4G63 and VW motors. I don't remember specifically but I think some of the 4G63 motors are 1.80:1 or close to. Building my 2.0 with the taller block puts the rod ratio at 1.77:1. The biggest advantage Im going after is high RPM stability.
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby gse_turbo » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:02 pm

So I guess I misspoke earlier about our 2.0 motors having a "low" rod-stroke ratio at 1.66:1. After widening my comparisons, here's a list just for kicks...

I do think it's funny that the SR20 which is arguably the most popular Nissan engine (and known for being revved over 10K rpm) has a 1.58 R:S ratio. Nissans is generally on the high side of R:S, if my numbers are correct a VG30 has 1.86, a VQ30 has 1.84, an RB30 has 1.79, a VH45 has 1.78, a VQ35 has 1.77, and the KA despite being passed off by some enthusiasts as a "truck motor" has 1.72 even with it's 10mm longer stroke.

On the other side of the scale for anyone that cares the 4G63 is 1.70, the LS1 is 1.68, modular 4.6 1.67, 2JZ 1.65, RB26 1.65, K20 1.62, 3S 1.60, D16 1.52, and QR25 1.43.


Just to continue on my original line of comparisons to the 4G63 and standard 1.70:1 ratio. The standard bore is 85mm, stroke 88mm and rod length is 150mm. And again standard rod ratio is 1.70:1.

The setup that is gain popularity with high revving builders is to use a 156mm rod and piston setup for a long-rod 2.0
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby 7-even » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:34 pm

What's the HP goal? Also why calico coat the oil pump gears? To help shed oil or for the longevity of the oil pump? I'm also still interested in the differences in the oil pump too. I know you said you could raise the pressure of the stock pump by shining the valve(I think anyway). But is the z20 pump stronger as well as flowing more oil? What would your options be if the pump failed? Are you going +1 on the intake/exhaust valves or staying stock size? Are you planing a custom intake manifold? Really interested to see this one together.
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby turboetec » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:59 pm

I'm getting a custom aluminium intake manifold from gse_turbo for the 1.6L E-TEC II engine block, so I'd be surprised if he wasn't doing one up for this build! :smile:
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby gse_turbo » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:50 am

The goal at this point is 600hp at the crank.

The reason for coating the pump internals is for friction reduction mostly. The second is to help prevent pump failures specifically if there is a drop or loss of pressure and cold starts.
One of the most common failures is the steel pressure check valves seazing in the aluminum housing. Some companies in the UK convert to Teflon to prevent it. I haven't ruled that out but I feel this option is an equally beneficial option.
I'll post pics as soon as I can of the differences between the pumps.

As far as the valves, +.5mm is the most Supertech suggested to be safe with overlap and high RPM.

The intake manifold is a pretty trick item. The plan is to incorporate a water-to-air intercooler into the plenum after the throttle body. We've been working on this same setup on an Audi 5-cylinder so once all the design aspect and part sourcing is complete on that one it will be easier to do it again on mine.
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby turboetec » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:07 am

Dang, that's aggressive! I'm only aiming for about 300hp for my 1.6T build. For a start, anyway. But then, I'm not talking about a water-to-air intercooler integrated into the plenum or a rebuilt oil pump!!! This is going to be one real monster build!
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby PrecisionBoost » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:34 pm

gse_turbo wrote:So I guess I misspoke earlier about our 2.0 motors having a "low" rod-stroke ratio at 1.66:1. After widening my comparisons, here's a list just for kicks...


I also misspoke, your still using the 2.0L crank so you will not be increasing the acceleration and deceleration of the piston/rod, so it's only the added mass of the longer rod which will increase stress on the crank.

Not sure if you were using the 8V crank for a reason, but back in the day on the C20GET forum there was quite a bit of talk about the 8V crank being forged or having specifications near that of a forged crank ( speculation was that it was a Brazilian made Opel crank with a higher than typical nickel content )
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby 7-even » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:44 pm

I have a question why the Isuzu block. Is it better than say the daewoo 2.2 block?
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby gse_turbo » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:42 pm

That's a good questions and the short answer for what im doing is no, there really isnt.

I started the project a couple years back using the Daewoo Leganza 2.2. The motor was bored +1mm back then by a shop that was supposed to be high end. When it came time to start building I had the cylinders spec'd out the they were way off, even cone shaped.
There are a couple advantages to the Rodeo motor specifically for what I'm planning but not for the average use. All in all it really came down to availability, I found a 'core' Rodeo motor before a new Leganza motor.

As far as differences, it's pretty much just were certain items are relocated for RWD. the one thing I'm looking forward to using is the Rodeo oil pan. It's a lot like the Z20LET where it has a steel sump that mounts to a structural aluminum section. The improvement on this one (in my opinion) is that the steel section runs almost the full length of the motor. It will make for a nice 'kick-out' in the pan for added oil capacity and shedding.

I haven't torn the Rodeo motor down yet but I've heard that the connecting rods are a lot beefier than the ones in the Leganza. They are supposed to be more like the C20LET/XE rods. It wot benefit me if that is the case but I do plan on selling all my 2.2 parts with the Leganza block. The block is still very good but it will have to be re-bored to 88mm. I didn't go that route because I already had my pistons made and I wanted to keep the extra 2mm between the cylinders.


As a side note, since there were issues with the bore accuracy from the previous machine shop I'm going to go a step further before this one is done. I will be making a "torque plate" to simulate the cylinder head being in place during machining. It's a little price to make so I plan on renting out to anyone who could make use of it.
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Re: Ultimate 2.0 16v turbo build

Postby 7-even » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:52 pm

I thought it might be something like that :). You were talking about the different rods Are you looking to put together a stroker kit for this build? Also did you get my last PM?
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