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Pontiac LeMans Project

Transmissions, Clutches, torque converters, Gear ratios, Brakes, Pads, etc.

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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby CarSick » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:31 am

Turning into a nightmare...simply because there aren't enough parts available in the junk yards. If I find a LeMans, it ends up being an Automatic and I need the darn clutch pedal and hardware.
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby PrecisionBoost » Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:48 am

I`m on holidays right now, but we should talk when I get back in the new year as I have two completely stripped manual chassis, so I can give you what ever you need, it will just cost for shipping.

As far as the cable clutch, that should be easy, the Lemans came with a cable clutch factory so there is not much point to converting over to hydraulic.

An F16 transmission is what is in the lemans, the D16 is in the lanos.

The only difference is that the D16 has a hydraulic slave cylinder to push the clutch instead of the simple clutch fork mechanism of the D16.

I`m pretty sure you can remove the D16 hydraulics and drop in the F16 bits to convert it for use in a lemans as I have done some swapping of parts between an F16 and D16 in the past when working on an Aveo.

Anyways, give me a list of parts you need, I will assemble them and weigh them to see how much it is to get it to you via USPS. ( you should PM the list )
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby Puddle31 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:54 pm

WOW! It doesn't get any more helpful than that! Way to step up precisionboost!
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby Efrain A. » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:11 am

I MISS MY LEMANS!
'88 Pontiac Lemans GTE - 2.0 16v XE - fully programable ECU, Custom made intake manifold and other bits.
146.6WHP/135lb.ft - 14.81@94mph
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby CarSick » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:25 am

PrecisionBoost wrote:I`m on holidays right now, but we should talk when I get back in the new year as I have two completely stripped manual chassis, so I can give you what ever you need, it will just cost for shipping.


Wow, thanks for that offer. I didn't monitor the topic for a bit there during the holidays. I wish I would have had the topic set to email when it someone posts.

So, after looking at the junk yards within 200 miles I found an MT car (407 mile round trip) and pulled the clutch pedal, spring, pivot bolt, and rubber grommet for $21 and 15 minutes work. I also pulled the engine/trans to get the lever out that actuates the throwout bearing for another $15 and a couple hours more effort. The hydraulic clutch version of the lever has a much shorter arm, so to switch the D16 to an F16 requires changing this lever/shaft; which meant separating the trans from the engine :( If I had to, I figured that I could just fabricate the part by welding an extension on the hyd version of the lever, but since I was already there and spent the money on gas, I pulled the engine/trans to get that lever. It slipped right into the Lanos D16, thus converting it to an F16.

The next issue had to do with the splines on the D16. There are more splines on the D16 than splines on the clutch that came with the LeMans engine. Again, this engine was an NOS factory fully dressed engine I bought on eBay a while back. It was already setup for a manual trans LeMans and included the flywheel/clutch/Pressure Plate. So, I bought a Lanos clutch, which had the proper matching splines for the Lanos trans. Unfortunately, knowing that the Lanos had a bizarre monster flywheel arrangement, I also figured I'd order the whole clutch kit and a flywheel just to make sure that the throwout bearing engagement depth was compatible. Sadly, the Lanos flywheel had a different bolt pattern for the crankshaft and wouldn't fit. Actually it might be a good thing because the ring tooth count or the imbalance may have been different as well. So I have the proper cable operated trans and clutch, but now I have possibly the wrong engagement length on the throwout bearing.

I measured everything about the clutch engagement and did a drawing in Visio, where I was able to actually "drive" the transmission's input shaft into the pressure plate to test how much throw I'd have left in the throwout bearing once the bearing was in light contact with the pressure plate fingers. It looks like the total throw of the bearing is 25mm and the amount of throw that I have after initial contact with the fingers is about 10mm. So, is it enough?

I dunno. So, I mounted it all up and connected a couple of the shorter half shafts to the transmission. I switched the gear lever until it was in some gear and used a vice grip to move the lever, like the cable would. I then spun the half shafts and I could hear the clutch spinning and scraping a bit inside the bell-housing. So is there enough release? I still don't know, but there is some release for sure.

Finally, that brings us up to this last weekend. I stuffed the new engine/trans combo in there in about 20 minutes. These little engines are so easy to work on... But alas, the forward engine bracket between the block and the passenger side rubber body mount is too short. The rubber mount is probably the same between AT and MT cars, but the engine bracket that links the block to the rubber mount is probably shorter on the AT version, than the MT version. This bracket appears to be made of aluminum. If I have to fabricate one, I think I can. The Lanos brackets and the LeMans brackets appear to be identical at the transmission end. The middle mount looks the same, but I didn't actually measure it.

If you think that you have this engine bracket, ti would be nice if you could measure it and compare it with mine. I have taken a photo of the bracket so I'll put it online with measurements so you can take a look.

PrecisionBoost wrote:As far as the cable clutch, that should be easy, the Lemans came with a cable clutch factory so there is not much point to converting over to hydraulic.


I favor the cable anyway as there is more potential for a quick track-side fix.

After all of this is out of the way, I still have to attach the rear beam and front struts from the SAAB Turbo. I picked up a set of 5 lug wheels over the holidays, so there will be something to set the car down on after the jack stands are pulled.
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby PrecisionBoost » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:45 am

The engine mount issue seems strange, I am under the impression that the mount should be the same between all the 1.6L motors (8V and 16V).

The factory 2.0L 8V motor is larger, thus it has a shorter mount, perhaps somehow you got a 2.0L 8V mount ???

I have a half dozen mounts kicking around, should be able to compare dimensions for you.
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1989 Passport Optima GSi (Astra MK2 ) --- SOLD! :(
1990 Passport Optima GSi (Astra MK2 ) ---SCRAP! :(
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby benzino » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:05 am

the 1.5 mount is different to the 1.6 as well
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby CarSick » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:08 am

The image is here:
http://www.hotpursuit.net/HotPursuit/Driving/Projects/88LeMans/

This is the original 1.6L bracket from the old engine. It was a 3 spd automatic before.
I guess I should snap a photo under the hood to demonstrate the problem.

The longest dimension is 7" across. The mount needs to be longer and deeper so that it pushes the engine back into an alignment that is parallel to the radiator cross member. I'll see if I can snap a pic of the installed engine tomorrow. It's being held in place by the other two mounts and a 4x4 block under the oil pan.
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby benzino » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:17 pm

can you add a spacer?
~2.0L Lanos~EHPAS~H&R Springs~KYB/GTS Shocks~
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby gse_turbo » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:43 pm

Chris is dead on with his post.

I have noticed that the engine sits at a slight angle from the factory. ...or closer to the radiator on the timing belt end of the engine.

one thing to consider, the rubber engine mount for the 1.6/1.5 and the 2.0 are not the same. they look identical but they are dimensionally very different. make sure you are using the appropriate motor mount as well.
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby CarSick » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:20 pm

New photos posted at the same url. Gotta get to work...
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby gse_turbo » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:27 pm

pretty strange. perhaps it's a combination of transmission bracket and engine bracket. a new rubber engine mount will take a lot of the slack out of that.
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby Efrain A. » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:10 am

Garret, rubber mount are not the same? a recall using the same rubber mount on my 2.0 16v racer/lemans and I did change it a few times.

http://daewootech.com/pics/DSCF0049.JPG
'88 Pontiac Lemans GTE - 2.0 16v XE - fully programable ECU, Custom made intake manifold and other bits.
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby CarSick » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:33 am

That bracket looks to be a lot closer to what is required. In my photos, the bracket appears to be lined up with the mount, but that's only because the engine is at an odd angle. The engine really needs to be rolled back an inch or so.
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Re: Pontiac LeMans Project

Postby PrecisionBoost » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:44 am

benzino wrote:the 1.5 mount is different to the 1.6 as well


Not sure why you think this, the 1.5L and 1.6L share the exact same block, I've even made a hybrid out using the 1.6L block with the 1.5L head , to my knowledge the 1.5 and 1.6 have the same bracket.

I will say that the picture of the engine looks like a 2.0L 8V mount to me, I could be wrong, but I've played with them many times, I even made a few mounts for people drop in the 2.0L into the lanos.

The 2.0L 8V TBI and the 1.6L 8V TBI look nearly identical at first glance and the mounts look identical until you put them side by side

The 2.0L 8V came in the higher model Lemans, I think it was a GSE Aerocoupe in the USA

I'm sure I have some spare mounts kicking around, do you want me to find you a 1.6L mount?
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L 16V Turbo )
2002 Daewoo Lanos
2011 Mitsubishi Lancer Raliart --- SOLD! :)
1989 Passport Optima GSi (Astra MK2 ) --- SOLD! :(
1990 Passport Optima GSi (Astra MK2 ) ---SCRAP! :(
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